Separatist on Parade, 11: Where did all the money go?

BCL points out that the Western Business and Taxpayers Association, a recently formed separatist group, is calling on its supporters to send in their pledged donations. David Crutcher, the WBTA's Executive Director, wrote them yesterday (see the screen cap at BCL).

I know it has been some time since we have contacted you and quite frankly that is because many of you have promised to lend your support, but have not done so.

The tone might be a little off. Saying something like "We've not contacted you because you've failed us. (Bad supporters! bad! bad!)" is unlikely to strengthen their bonds to the organization. Funny that.

Still, Crutcher's plea makes what he posted on the Blogging Tories discussion board in December a little more interesting. There he claimed that the WBTA had raised oodles of cash: $200,000. Here's a screen cap:

Now, it is unclear whether this $200,000 is money that was actually collected or merely pledged, or even a figment of someone's imagination. But if it is pledges that remain unsent, that would surely explains Crutcher's crankiness. Those no-good separatist supporters have bilked him out of some serious change!

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet
• Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals
  
• Separatists on parade, 8: WBTA BC Chair comments on race war
• Separatists on parade, 9: Harper once supported separatist Erik Gregson
• Separatists on parade, 10: another separatist in the Conservative Party
• Separatists on parade revisited: parade forgotten?
  

Separatists on parade revisited: parade forgotten?

For a short time in December a new western separatist group emerged, though its rollout was marred by a series of missteps that I chronicled at the time (here). Several unsuitable characters were recruited for its council:

• its BC chair had to be removed over "incompatible philosophies" (here: apparently it had to do with his views on race war and political assassination)
  
• one policy chair resigned when problems with his claims about his experience emerged (here and here)
• the next policy chair claimed a degree from a diploma mill (here)

In the meantime, apparently its all gone stale. The webpage seems not to have been updated in months, no progress seems to have been reached in filling vacancies in the council, and their founding convention has been forgotten.

Here is their convention page as of this morning (here):

The date, of course, is noteworthy. The convention is supposed to start today. Given that as of this morning "prices and location are yet to be determined" one assumes that it did not happen.

Apparently it has been postponed or forgotten.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet
• Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals
  
• Separatists on parade, 8: WBTA BC Chair comments on race war
• Separatists on parade, 9: Harper once supported separatist Erik Gregson
• Separatists on parade, 10: another separatist in the Conservative Party
  

Separatists on parade, 10: another separatist in the Conservative Party

The new Western Business and Taxpayers Association (WBTA) is a new separatist organization dedicated to creating a separate state in western Canada, first surfacing in early December. It recently revealed its new policy chair, Rob Allen, who (as BCL points out) seems to have a degree from a diploma mill. (One wonders whether the WBTA foresees its new state having a policy against credential fraud. Perhaps the policy chair has a position on this.)

There is another noteworthy point in Mr. Allen's profile, here:

Mr. Allen claims to be a member of the federal Conservative Party.

It is odd how many separatists there are among the Conservatives, as we have pointed out before:

• David Crutcher, the Executive Director of the group, blithely reports his membership in the Conservative Party in his profile (see here, which I discussed here);
• Eric Gregson, who is chairing the group's founding convention, is a prominent Conservative (see here) who seems close to Harper (here);
• a few years ago, Gordon Stamp was forced to resign as campaign manager for Conservative MP Peter Goldring after his separatist postings on the internet became known (see here);
• Bert Brown, whom Harper subsequently appointed to the senate, attended the founding convention of the Alberta Independence Party in 2001 and is quoted as having wished that group 'every success' (reports here and here).

Now, it is perfectly understandable that western separatists (whose politics tend to be conservative) would have once belonged to the Reform, Alliance, and then Conservative Parties. But I can't be the only one who is struck at how matter-of-factly these people can identify themselves as separatists and claim membership in the CPC -- the CPC is (after all) a federalist party.

This all raises the question: what are these people doing in the Conservative Party of Canada? why does the CPC allow this?  and more importantly, why do they feel comfortable there?

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet
• Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals
  
• Separatists on parade, 8: WBTA BC Chair comments on race war
• Separatists on parade, 9: Harper once supported separatist Erik Gregson

Slump dumped? Night of the long knives? Incompetence in the control room?

To judge from the webpage of the executive council at the WBTA there's been an enormous shake-up. All of the old councillors were gone, including controversial BC-chair, Ernie Slump! (On whom see here and here and here) Crutcher seems to have expelled them all and installed a new Saskatchewan chair!

(Or it could be a clumsy web-administrator. Stay tuned!)

UPDATE.  The dumping of Slump has been bumped!  Apparently Ernie Slump is still BC chair; the others councillors are returned to their positions!  What a difference 15 minutes can make!

Separatists on parade, 9: Harper once supported separatist Erik Gregson

Returning to Erik Gregson, who will be Chair of the founding convention for the WBTA (thumb-nail to the right).

As we have seen, Gregson came out as a separatist on his radio show in 2005. By this point he had an impressive history within the Reform, Alliance, and now Conservative Party, according to the profile on his WBTA page:

Erik got involved in the Reform Party in 1993 and has since sat on various boards for both the Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance …

During his time in the Canadian Alliance, Erik has been a key planner, organizer and moderator of three Alberta Policy Conferences. …

Over the past 15 years Erik has been involved in numerous political campaigns for other candidates. On April 16, 2003 Erik was the Chief Returning Officer for Stephen Harper's nomination.

Given his resumé, it is not particularly surprising that in 2004 (only a year before coming out as a separatist), his prospects within the party were good enough that he sought the nomination of the federal riding of Macleod. Nomination would have guaranteed his election, since Macleod is one of the safest Conservative seats in the country.

In the end, however, Gregson lost the nomination to Ted Menzies, Macleod's current MP. He made a race of it though, especially after he was endorsed by Stephen Harper (who was then campaigning for the leadership of the newly merged Conservative party). Below is the story from Ft. Macleod's local paper, the Western Wheel from Feb. 18, 2004.

A few points deserve special attention. Harper's endorsement was regarded as unusual at the time, and is explained by Gregson's earlier support for Harper and by the fact that he was Harper's personal friend.

The Western Wheel from Feb. 18, 2004 (vol. 29, no. 29, via archive.org).

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet
• Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals
  
• Separatists on parade, 8: WBTA BC Chair comments on race war

Separatists on parade, 8: WBTA BC Chair comments on race war

The WBTA has appointed as their BC Chair a certain Ernest Slump. As we have seen (here), Slump has rather disturbingly called for the execution of all Liberal officials and ex-officials.

This isn't the only disturbing thing that he's written. Even worse are his views on race (thumb-nail below and to the right; google-cached here):

Given that Slump is a western separatist, no one should be surprised that he holds views that are politically incorrect. But regarding "the White man" as congenitally superior, as this passage shows, is more than a little worrying. That he includes within that superiority a belief that whites are better at killing their enemy is simply astonishing.

Now, the WBTA should feel uncomfortable having someone with these views as a member. To have him as their official face in British Columbia is unthinkable. Did they do any vetting at all of their council?

Update.  More about Slump at BCL: Slump doesn't want all of BC to separate, Vancouver will apparently be left out. 

Update 2.  The WBTA informs BCL that they are asking Slump for clarification.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet
• Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals
  

Separatists on parade, 7: WBTA BC Chair called for the execution of all Liberals

The Western Business and Taxpayers Association council is slowly taking shape. They may, however, want to rethink their BC Chair, who at the moment is Ernie Slump. As BCL has pointed out, Slump is the publisher of Truckspeaker magazine (which has the dubious distinction of having the ugliest website I've ever seen).

He also has anger management issues, at least if he's the Ernest Slump who called for the execution of all Liberals a couple Christmas's ago. His whole screed can be seen via Google-cache, here, but here is the most unbalanced bit:

Now, I'm sure that there are many in this country whose heads are filled with voices saying bad things. But its best not to repeat what they say in public.

In the meantime one wonders whether the WBTA might not have another member in British Columbia who may be more suitable.

(The whole thing can be read in the screencap behind the thumb-nail to the right.)

Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste

For those tuning in late, the new separatist organization the Western Business and Taxpayers Association has announced the date of its founding convention (here) and its chairman, ErikGregson.

Along with this comes a fancy new biographical sketch for the chairman -- well, actually not so new. As you can see in the graphic below, the new biography (here) is almost entirely a copy-and-paste from Gregson's profile at the Radio Freedom Network (here).

I say almost completely because as you'll see some (but not all) time periods have been recalculated, and a new paragraph on Gregson's conversion to separatism has been added.

The result is not quite confidence inspiring. Several minor errors were introduced into the copy:

• Gregson is said to have "strated" a business in the second paragraph
• Gregson has been turned from a "cub scout leader" into a "club scout leader" in the final paragraph
• "separatist" is misspelt (you'd think that a separatist group could spell this word correctly!)

Those last two mistakes are especially odd, given that this was surely a copy-and-paste. How do you insert mistakes like that in a copy-and-paste? Fat fingers, I guess.

Now, typographical errors are easy to make, and criticizing them is pretty lame.

Given, however, that Alberta separatists a few years ago expressed the ambition for Alberta to acquire nuclear submarines, the question Albertans have to ask themselves is whether these are the fingers you want near the trigger?

Update.  Big City Liberal notes another screw-up: the WBTA seems to have lost its policy chair.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet

Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention

The new separatist group, the Western Business and Taxpayers Association, apparently met yesterday to choose their council.  Only rumours, so far. But high-level sources have sent me the following screenshot, which says that their convention will be held on January 30-31st and its chairman, Erik Gregson (whose involvement with this group we've already noted here).

It's already been noted that the WBTA council is still secret, with only the name of its executive director David Crutcher known (here).  Gregson's email in the above screenshot is policy@itstimetogo.ca, so we can assume that he will be the group's policy chair.

More as it comes in.

Update.  The convention page has now gone live here.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet

Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC

Conservatives were outraged two weeks ago when the Liberals and NDP planned to form a coalition and the Bloc Quebecois pledged to support if for 18 months. Indeed, Harper himself, in his five-minute televised address to the nation on December 2, mentioned “separatists” four times: “This is no time for backroom deals with the separatists”.

In response Saskatchewan blogger, Buckdog, asks an important question: If Harper And The Conservatives HATE Separatists ... (the Quebecois version) ... Why Don't They Also Condemn Western Separatists? A fair question, as I'm sure anyone would admit.

Another question. Wouldn't it be best if the Conservative Party restricted its membership to non-separatists? A case in point: David Crutcher is the Executive Director of the new separatist Western Business and Taxpayers Association. His profile on the WBTA's website happily identifies him as federal Conservative. Here's the screenshot:
Nor is Crutcher the only one.

• A few years ago, Gord Stamp was forced to resign as campaign manager to Alberta MP Peter Goldring when it was revealed that he'd been espousing separatism on the internet.
  
• In 2001, two Alliance MPs attended the founding convention of the Alberta Independence Party (on which here)
• Bert Brown (who was at that time one of Alberta's "senators-in-waiting") attended the same meeting, actually spoke to its delegates,* and is quoted as wishing them "every success" (reports here and here and in many places in the printed press). Harper appointed Brown to the senate in July, 2007.

The question, then should not be whether or when Harper will criticize western separatists. It's whether and when he'll kick them out of his own party.

*Re-reading press reports of Brown's participation at the AIP's founding convention, it is not clear whether Bert Brown spoke; over here, Jane Morgan, the wife of the man who became leader of the party at that convention, insists that this did not happen.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet

separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs

Over at the Blogging Tories a few days ago, Western Separatist David Crutcher claimed to have raised oodles of cash and that his new separatist group counts former MPs among its supporters (here's a screen cap):

The BTs, to their credit, were mostly unenthusiastic.   In any case skepticism is in order.   The claim to fund-raising cash is a little bit hard to believe, but let's leave that aside, since it is unlikely that the WBTA's funding will ever be transparent enough that this could be proven or disproven.

The claim to have the support former MPs, on the other hand, is striking, since these should eventually come forward to support the group. Who could they be?

Two names that come to mind are Myron Thompson and Darrel Stinson, who caused a bit of a scandal back in 2001 when they attended the founding convention of the Alberta Independence Party. (See an old essay of Andrew Coyne criticizing them for this archived here.)

Regardless of whether these are the former MPs who support Crutcher's new group, it'll be interesting to hear who else is involved in this new separatist group.

Other posts in this series:

• separatists on parade, 1: Erik Gregson
  
• separatists on parade, 2: WBTA claims to have ex-MPs
  
• Separatists on parade, 3: western separatists in the CPC
  
• Separatists on parade, 4: Erik Gregson to chair WBTA convention
  
• Separatists on parade, 5: Separatists bungle copy-and-paste
  
• Separatists on parade, 6: Erik Gregson comes out of the closet

New contest: help the separatists pick a council!

Regular readers of BCL found a startling headline this morning: New Western Separatist Organization Consists Of One Guy! He's referring, of course, to the new Western Business and Taxpayer's Association", which so far as anyone can see, has only one member, its executive director David Crutcher, a Calgary businessman active in provincial politics.

The rest of the council, as you can see from the screenshot below, is TBA.

It would be churlish of us not to pitch in with the helping hand by holding a contest to pick a council for them. There are, as you can see, eight positions vacant. You can nominate someone for each position, or some of them. Or you can make up your own new positions and pick who is best to fill it! Prizes for the best suggestions!

Tick, tick, tick

There were lots of political surprises last week. One thing, however, that was totally predictable was the creation of another separatist group, this time the Western Business and TaxPayers Association, whose website is charmingly called www.itstimetogo.ca.  

Several points occur.  First, one wonders whether there is any irony in their choice of .ca as their top-level domain? (If separation ever occurs they'll have to give up their website!) 

Secondly, one notices that the website (screencap below) promises an operational website by Monday, Dec. 8 (today).  Now, there are a few hours left before this promise goes unfulfilled. But it looks very much like Crutcher and his colleagues are going to miss their self-imposed deadline.

Update. It looks like they met (just!) their deadline: a new site is up this morning, here.

Gord Stamp (psycho) & Peter Goldring: summary thread

For those coming in late, here is a summary of my posts about Gordon Stamp (aka Psycho), who was Peter Goldring's campaign manager.

1. Alberta separatists in the CPC?
   
2. Alberta separatists in the CPC (2)?
   
3. Alberta separatists in the CPC (3): who is Psycho?
   
4. Conservative Official: "Canada has no moral reason to exist"
   
5. Conservative Official: "Alberta has no future in Canada", easterners are "idiots"
   
6. "Mr. Goldring and Mr. Harper have a decision to make"
   
7. Conservative Official: Alberta Agenda not stong enough
8. more stamp quotes
   
9. Conservative MP calls Free Dominion 'extreme' but spoke at its banquet
   
10. CPC MP says separation never discussed
    
11. Contingent Canadians
    
12. DanReport: Which MP and Board President did Stamp discuss separatism with?
    
13. CTV story
    

If you want to post a link to the controversy, please link to this page, which has the permanent address: http://bouquetsofgray.blogspot.com/2006/01/gord-stamp-psycho-peter-goldring.html

Standing Up for Canada

Here's a Conservative who is standing up for Canada. From here

Jon Lord
Western separatism based on lies
Albertans pay more in federal taxes because they have higher incomes

As a former Conservative politician and Calgary MLA, I was often attacked by the far right within my own party – dissed as a "Joe Clark Red Tory," labelled a socialist for speaking up on topics like increased income for AISH recipients and affordable housing for young people, or for staying in homeless shelters in disguise. It got worse when I helped advocate (successfully) for increased gay rights, and when I became the only Conservative MLA in Alberta to point out possible Kyoto benefits. Not surprisingly, many Conservatives didn’t support me in the last election, so I got fired.

Nonetheless, I’ve always been inspired by the words of Abraham Lincoln: "He serves his party best, who serves his country first." So, at further risk to my reputation, I am going to speak against a subject that many hold dear: western separation.

According to a recent poll in the Western Standard, young people are leaning more and more towards separation. If this trend and that poll can be believed, I would find it deeply disturbing – even if the usual propaganda touted as the benefits of separation were actually true, but even more so because they are not. At best, the separatist arguments tell only half the story; at worst, they are downright misleading.

Let’s start with that oft-repeated statement about Albertans sending $3,500 more per person to Ottawa each year than we get back – that we have been pillaged to the tune of billions in subsidizing the rest of Canada. Obviously, a compelling argument, especially if you have already been indoctrinated into the fold, or just don’t know what questions you ought to be asking.

You might view it differently if you were to realize that this $3,500 figure is actually just discussing the "government transfer" side of the ledger, and not private sector wealth transfers, which actually flow massively in the other direction. The reason Albertans pay more in income taxes to Ottawa is because a large number of us have much higher average incomes than the rest of the country does – not because we are Albertans. And the reasons that many Albertans have much higher incomes on average is because they benefit from the oil and gas industry, and the rest of the country has to send us increasing truckloads of money to buy all that oil and gas. Much higher incomes equal higher income taxes, whether you are in Quebec, Halifax or Calgary, and guess who is gathering up by far the most money per capita in Canada after taxes? So we send a little back, but look what they are sending us!

I would further challenge that $3,500 figure with the following questions: Who did the measuring and what did they include in the accounting? Did that $3,500 figure include our share of National Defence spending as a "benefit" to Alberta – or is that deemed a subsidy from us to the rest of Canada? Are civil servants who live in Ottawa, but who work full-time administering Alberta pensions and taxes, counted as a "benefit" to Alberta or an expense? How much of each dollar that we send to the City of Calgary do we "get back" in goods and services, knowing that 70 per cent of each dollar goes to civic employee salaries and wages? Does this mean we only get 30 per cent back? Or 100 per cent?

Let’s take a look at some other wealth transfers. What is the value of the brain drain of hundreds of thousands of the best and brightest Canadians from coast to coast moving to Alberta, bringing their incomes and bank accounts and family savings and expensive educations along with them, and who are now paying provincial income taxes to this province instead of Quebec or elsewhere? Alberta is the beneficiary of probably the largest interprovincial net wealth transfer in Canadian history on a per capita basis – into, not out of, the province. Puts a bit of a different spin on the "orphan child of Confederation" the separatists keep talking about, doesn’t it?

I could go on and on. I could talk about the first national energy policy (the one where we did it to them). It was called Diefenbaker’s National Oil Policy, and it forced easterners to buy only our oil, at well above prevailing world oil prices at the time, and among other things it decimated Quebec’s petrochemical industry, which used to be at the forefront in Canada. (Dief also did that Avro Arrow thing, so no wonder easterners would never vote for a western prime minister ever again – er, until 39-year-old Joe Clark came along and proved it could be done, thus disproving that separatist claim as well.)

As for the National Energy Program in the 1980s, which is claimed to have cost Albertans $80 billion – can anyone show me any such cheque? Facts are the $80 billion is mostly just estimated additional profits that didn’t get made, and probably wouldn’t have been made, and if they had been made, they would have mostly gone south if they hadn’t gone east anyway, because the oil industry was 80 per cent American-owned at the time. I was here – and I think it was the then-prevailing 22 per cent interest rates that did the most damage to our real estate values – and those sky-high rates were doing the same thing all over North America, not just Alberta. Further (at the risk of really getting people mad at me here), for every single distressed seller back then, wasn’t there a risk-taking buyer, who got one heck of a deal and actually got richer as a direct result of the NEP? In other words, didn’t a lot of entrepreneurial people actually end up buying the fleeing American oil and gas assets, at fire-sale prices, while others snapped up prime real estate all over Calgary for pennies on the dollar? Why don’t we ever hear a single word about that side of the equation?

But moving on, who did what to whom first, and engaging in tit for tat against "foreigners" from outside Alberta, isn’t a productive exercise. A little local pride is a good thing, but when it turns into tribal hate mongering against perceived "outsiders," well, that is another thing entirely.

Anyone who has built a successful company knows that to really succeed, you must first start by building a great team. To build a great team, it is vital to attract a very diverse group of talent, since there are many completely different jobs that need doing. It’s nice, but not necessary, that this group of people get along with each other on a personal basis. In fact, they may intensely dislike each other, but that is not important, as long as the job gets done right, which requires professionalism, mutual respect and tolerance. In fact, a team is usually strengthened, not weakened, by a large diversity of thought, opinion and expertise amongst its members – and conversely, any organization that only recruits "like-minded" individuals soon begins to suffer.

Now apply the same philosophy to building a great political party, and then building a great nation. I am really tired of hearing how other Canadians outside Alberta are "different" than us, and that therefore we should separate. Having continually and thoroughly insulted Ontarians and virtually all other Canadians, how can we expect them to vote for a party that is often viewed as representing only Western demands? This is not the type of thinking that builds great nations.

I certainly am not suggesting that you vote Liberal –their well-meaning policies usually result in the exact opposite of what was intended. However, they have managed to be perceived, at least, as being the only party standing up for a united Canada (although, as usual, their baggage has had precisely the opposite effect). But I think the Conservative Party is also badly embarrassed, and is badly held down in the polls nationally, by some of our members who only seem to stand for the West getting a better deal – or else!

O Canada, indeed.

P.S. Note to separatists: Save the angry abuse – one of the advantages of not being in public office anymore is that I can’t be threatened with being "taken out" in the next election.

DanReport: which MP and board president discussed separatism with Stamp/Psycho?

As regular readers know, Gordon Stamp, who posted regularly on Freedominion and elsewhere under the handle Stamp, resigned his position as campaign chair of Conservative MP Peter Goldring over posts that expressed separatist sympathies.

In one of these posts (here), Stamp reports that he was part of a discussion about separatism with other officials in the CPC.

It was funny sitting at a table a few months ago when one long term MP, our Board president and I were in a conversation. Our president was telling the MP that although most of the people he worked with supported separatism, it wasn't going to fly. The MP told him to check out his Board because he would find separatist sentiment. I smiled and raised my hand - if looks could kill... The point is that the CPC candidates know what is going on. They (as Preston Manning did) are trying to stave off the destruction of Canada.

Over at the Dan Report, Dan speculates on which Conservative MP it was. Those who want to keep up with the story may want to check it out.

It strikes me that before that question can be answered, it would be easier to identify the board president that Stamp mentions. Anyone know?

Contingent Canadians

Over the last few days, vigorous discussion has broken out about what, indeed, one must say in order to be regarded as a separatist. Apparently for some, something like this does not qualify:

Many of us in Alberta are working on our last federal campaign if the Liberals remain in power - we will be working on Alberta separation after January 23...

Stamp here says that he will only begin working on Alberta separation after the election if the Liberals are re-elected. (He said the same thing following the last election, see here, and for all we know had said it about Cretien's re-elections, too. But let's leave that aside.) There are, of course, other posts where his separatist sympathies are less qualified, for example at Project Alberta, where under the handle 'Gord S.' he closed many postings with the proclamation that "Canada has no moral justification to exist". (See also his separatist statements here.)

But let us allow Mr. Stamp, and those like him, a mental footnote: "Canada has no moral justification to exist (after January 23 if the Liberals are re-elected)".

Frankly, to me, whether someone is an out-and-out separatist or a proto-separatist does not much matter. Contingent Canadians--those who say that they are happy to be Canadian if the country does one thing or stops doing another--do no credit to themselves or their ideas. OK. Let's wave our magic wand and make the Conservatives the government. Will not Mr. Stamp and his kind merely reinvoke their tawdry little threat at every political cross-roads? The Supreme court overrules a pet piece of legislation? "We'll start working for separation!" A member of his party crosses the floor? "Separation!" The Conservatives are unsuccessful in convincing the provinces of its constitutional agenda? "Separation!" It looks like they might lose an election? Etc. Etc. Etc.

No. Commit yourself. Either in or out. Grow up and decide. Show some respect for yourself and your beliefs.

I am a Canadian. I was born Canadian. I will die a Canadian. I have lived most of my life in the west, am now living in Ontario, and by the time I die might have the privilege to live elsewhere in this great nation. I am proud of Canada, its history, and its achievements. I like who we are and what we're becoming. I will not vote for anyone who asks me to defend Canada to them; nor will I vote for anyone who knowingly associates with such a person. I want people in public life who can articulate their reasons that Canada has "a moral justification to exist" no matter what mistakes its people or governments make. I do what I can to get along with my fellow man, but I will not change my vote to buy off contingent Canadians.

(I welcome comments that adhere to my comments policy.)

CPC MP says separation never discussed

For those tuning in late, Gordon Stamp, campaign chair in Edmonton East for Conservative MP Peter Goldring, resigned the other day when it was revealed that he had expressed separatist sympathies--he now denies he's a separatist--on Free Dominion. (See the three posts starting here; for a good overview of events, see the summary here.)

Conservative MP Goldring, naturally enough, tried to distance himself from Stamp and Free Dominion (here). The Journal adds:

Goldring, who was on his way back to Edmonton from New Brunswick, said he has known Stamp for eight years, but they had never discussed Alberta separation.

One would hope so. Psycho/Stamp has said some things on the internet that would seem to contradict that (here):

It was funny sitting at a table a few months ago when one long term MP, our Board president and I were in a conversation. Our president was telling the MP that although most of the people he worked with supported separatism, it wasn't going to fly. The MP told him to check out his Board because he would find separatist sentiment. I smiled and raised my hand - if looks could kill...

The point is that the CPC candidates know what is going on.

Stamp stops short of identifying the Conservative MP to whom he confessed his separatist leanings. But he is quite emphatic in his statement that Edmonton's CPC MPs know that there are separatists in their midst.

More Stampy goodness

Edmonton blogger Idealistic Pragmatist has found some more pro-separatism material of Mr. Stamp's over at Project Alberta, where he publishes under the pen name 'Gord S.'

Update Project Alberta is now discussing Psycho/Stamp's views, who posts there under the pen name 'Gord S.' Note again the troublesome quote that I discusses earlier: Stamp says that a Conservative MP from Edmonton had told him--in front of the riding president--that there were separatists on his board. A Project Alberta poster identifies the MP as Goldring. That assumption might be incorrect. Here what Psycho/Stamp said (here):

It was funny sitting at a table a few months ago when one long term MP, our Board president and I were in a conversation. Our president was telling the MP that although most of the people he worked with supported separatism, it wasn't going to fly. The MP told him to check out his Board because he would find separatist sentiment.

Update 2 Some more problematic quotations of Stamp:

In mid-June, 2005, mid-way into a thread called "It's time for a Alberta Delcaration of Independence", someone asked "Why should we stay in Confederation????", Psycho/Stamp answered: "Honestly, I see no reason."

On June 12, 2005: "However, I honestly see no benefit for Alberta to remain part of Canada. Seriously, there is absolutely nothing that Canada as a nation offers me. " (his emphasis)

On Aug. 3, 2005, in a thread called Alberta A Future of Wealth and Separatism, Psycho Stamp presented a list of his grievances against Canada which he concluded thus: "I know that if I were given a ballot today, I would not vote to join Canada"

On Aug. 4, 2005: Psycho wrote: "Actually, I tell everyone I know that there is no reason for Alberta to remain part of Canada."

On Aug. 5, 2005: Letter to the editor to the Toronto Star (apparently never published): "If you actually analyze where Canada was 40 years ago and where we are today, Canada as a nation has no moral reason to exist. And Alberta will be the first to leave this dysfunctional family. "

Update 3. Another quote of Stamp following the last election is worth quoting (here):

"We just went through the most corrupt and incompetent government in Canada's history and we have to wait some more????

Ontario has endorsed corruption at the highest level of government.

The break-up of Canada was solely their decision. Alberta will take our $9 billion a year and invest it in our own health care system. Ontario can buy Eastern Canadian votes with someone else's money.

There are NO more years to wait - I will not sacrifice my morals and values to gain power - Ontario voters want corruption and lies - I refuse to live under that mandate!!!!! "

(hattip to poster Sifo-Dyas at Babble)

Separation Party of Alberta train-wreck

Since Alberta separatism is topical, readers might be interested in the train wreck of the Separation Party of Alberta. In short, at last month's convention/AGM (attended by 30 members), the leader and board were deposed, but they refuse to recognize the vote. The party is locked in stasis and may be deregistered.  For the details, see this thread at Project Alberta., including these posts:

• where disaffected member Alan Clark describes an attempted take-over of the party, including installing a new president and board; 
• a different point-of-view of the same meeting describes 18 Clark supporters voting him into office;
• part of the dispute involved an attempt to delay the party's convention for a year;